Maureen (00:08.373)
I'm so so to bring on my very dear friend, Sally Weber. And it just made so much sense that she would be one of my very first interviews in my new podcast because we have been through it together. And today's podcast is called From Drinking Buddies to Sober Sisters because that's exactly what we have done. And so I just kind of want to talk about Sally like, you know, conversational manner, like what are your...
recollections of when we first met.
Sally Webber (00:41.987)
Gosh, first recollections of when we first met would have to be the trip to the Bahamas. That's the first time that I met you. Donnie was playing basketball with a very dear friend of ours. And we were newly married and I was new to the area at the time. And just trying to meet people. And I remember this friend of Donnie and his wife kept saying, you'll get along with John and Maureen there.
ton of fun, there's so much fun, you need to come, you need to come. And we were like new to this whole dental world. We're not dental people. And so that was my first recollection of when we met. And I remember when I first met you, I was like, I'm not gonna like this girl at all. And Donnie said, he was like, you guys are gonna be best friends. I was like, I don't know, I don't see it. He was right. So yeah, the trip to Bahamas, that was the first experience.
Maureen (01:34.741)
Yeah, that's what I remember too. I had actually just come off of a figure competition and I was like super fit. I hadn't been drinking alcohol for like eight months and came on this trip and it was a big drinking trip. You know, everybody was drinking and, but I do remember meeting you and it was like electricity for me because it was like, whoa, I'm meeting another woman who, you know, her whole life isn't.
Sally Webber (01:38.659)
That's right.
Maureen (01:59.669)
revolving around her children. And you guys will hear the more I talk on this podcast, I'm a woman who's childless, not by choice. And that was actually a big struggle for me in my drinking. And I wasn't really conscious of it until I stopped drinking. That's another episode. So, but I met Sally and it was like electricity and you know, we had a lot of fun together and we came back from that trip, pretty much, you know, determined to become good friends. Yeah.
Sally Webber (02:24.259)
Yeah, it was instant. I mean, that trip moving forward, it was like we didn't skip a beat. It was like, when are we getting together next? And so that's the one thing that I do remember about meeting you was that from the moment we met, it was all about the drinking. And it was all about that was the way that we connected. And that's the way that we kind of commiserated with one another. You're a built -in therapist, because I mean, I was new to the area. I was recently married, had inherited two
Maureen (02:40.277)
Yeah.
Maureen (02:47.285)
definitely.
Sally Webber (02:54.051)
two step children, didn't really know what I was doing with that. And I remember you were on the Eastern Shore in that life. And then you guys eventually, I think it was shortly after the trip to the Bahamas that you guys ended up moving over. So there was a lot of commonality. And I think you and I were both lonely. I think we were both looking for something. We were looking for someone.
Maureen (03:02.517)
Right?
Maureen (03:14.773)
Yes.
Maureen (03:18.869)
Mm -hmm.
Sally Webber (03:19.171)
who was empathetic, compassionate, and who was a good listener. And alcohol definitely was the sidekick.
Maureen (03:28.853)
Definitely. And yeah, you're right. I was looking for a friend too, who could listen and commiserate. We had a lot of laughs too. I'm not going to say, you know, that we didn't. But we did drink a lot together. And that's kind of like what everybody does, right? Hey, let's meet for a drink. Let's go to dinner and have drinks. Let's have drinks before dinner. You know, let's have drinks after dinner. And in the town we both live in, drinking is predominant. Many, many bars. It's called what a...
Sally Webber (03:35.811)
Yeah.
Maureen (03:57.525)
drinking town with a sailing problem. Right. And you and I would go out for a girls night, you know, to the bars and I would come home just smashed and
Sally Webber (03:59.555)
after you've found the the sailing
Sally Webber (04:07.331)
Well, girls night would start at lunch.
Maureen (04:09.845)
Right. That's right. It would. You know, and then I remember I would get really anxious and I would call you the next day and be like, my gosh, you know, I drank so much. I think I said stupid things. And you would say, what would you say? Your tagline. You'll be fine. You'll be fine. And it wasn't until we both stopped drinking that we revisited that conversation.
Sally Webber (04:12.163)
No.
Sally Webber (04:18.947)
Mm -hmm.
Sally Webber (04:27.907)
You'll be fine. You'll be fine.
Maureen (04:38.709)
And I thought it was so interesting what you said to me. Do you recall that?
Sally Webber (04:44.355)
that I don't know my dad you say that to me all the time you'll be fine if I'm bow your neck you know suffer through it but I don't remember what is.
Maureen (04:45.237)
Okay.
Maureen (04:49.109)
Yeah. What you said was so interesting because you're like, you were also feeling anxiety. Yes, from post -drinking. But we didn't realize it. You know, we didn't make the connection and you didn't want to acknowledge my anxiety because you were trying to suppress your own anxiety. Yeah. Yeah.
Sally Webber (04:55.235)
gosh yes. Yes.
Sally Webber (05:07.327)
Yep, fake it till you make it. Yep.
Maureen (05:15.445)
Mm -hmm.
Maureen (05:20.757)
Right
Sally Webber (05:36.675)
visibly. I don't do that. Like if I don't feel well, you know it. If I've got an issue, I'm very verbal about it. But there were lots of people around me like, no, no, I'm just a little bit tired. I'm like, my God. And I used to think, what is wrong with me? Why can't I drink with all these people? Why do I feel this way? Never ever, ever, ever did I put together that it was a poison, that it's toxic, that it's an addictive substance.
Maureen (05:36.885)
Yes.
Maureen (05:49.785)
Right.
Sally Webber (06:04.451)
I didn't know anything about the, what do you call it? The scientific components of what alcohol is and what it does to the human body. I was so frantic in keeping up. That was the main goal. Just wanted to keep up.
Maureen (06:18.261)
Yes.
Yeah, because it wasn't just us. We hung out with a big drinking crowd. As you tend to do, you tend to surround yourself with people who drink like you. And in that crowd, you could always point to someone who drank less and other people who drank more. So you could be like, well, at least I'm not drinking like so -and -so, you know, while we... Right.
Sally Webber (06:39.587)
Yes. I looked on my face because I can drink more than me. I mean, I got that a lot. You're so little. I can't believe you can drink so much. And shots were always my thing. And it was really kind of sad. But it was a badge of honor, really, for the longest time.
Maureen (06:55.929)
Like you could drink with the guys. Yes. Yeah. And somehow we thought that meant like something, you know, that we were cool or accepted, which I think was underneath a lot of it, being accepted.
Sally Webber (07:10.627)
Yeah, yeah, hold on just a moment. Come on in here. Come say hello. We're recording. Hurry up. We have an interloper. I thought it was Donnie. It's Chase. Darlin, how are you? Sorry, sorry, sorry. Maureen's recording me, so we're doing something for her work, but I heard you. I thought you were your dad. Anyway, sorry, my bad. You'll have to edit him out. You're welcome.
Maureen (07:19.765)
haha
Hi.
Maureen (07:33.141)
Okay. Yeah. So I think there was so much of like wanting to fit in and being accepted. And also that's kind of what we did together, like a lot of people do together. And I did try to pass off that I wasn't hurting the next day with most people. I would call you and say, I'm feeling anxious, but I would go to the gym and think I was sweating it out and try to tough it out. But I
felt like crap, you know, all day long. But if it was a weekend, and let's say we drank like that on a, well, you know, here are the weekends started on Wednesdays or Thursdays. So let's say we drank like that on a Thursday, we'd do it again on a Friday. So we'd feel like crap all day Friday, and then do it again Friday night.
Sally Webber (08:05.155)
I guess.
Sally Webber (08:22.275)
Absolutely, getting up in the morning on Friday. Cause I remember we had workouts Monday, Wednesday and Friday. And it was like, you didn't miss your workout, especially on Friday. And that's how I, like you would justify it. It's like, if I can get myself up, if I can move through the day, if I can get what I need to get done, if I can move my body, it was almost kind of like, that was the prize at the end. It wasn't the fact that I was doing something healthy for my body. It was the fact that I could,
Maureen (08:27.957)
Mm -hmm.
Sally Webber (08:51.107)
check all the boxes so that I felt better about myself so I could go home, shower, pick out an outfit, because it was always about, that was kind of something that I always looked forward to is getting dressed and going out, not like to be seen, but I just loved like the whole thing of getting dressed up and going out and meeting. But it was all about the drink. It was all about figuring out how I could get to the point where I could drink and not feel guilty. And I would, I remember we would be so proud of ourselves with that first martini that would come and whoo!
Maureen (09:14.229)
Yes.
Sally Webber (09:20.675)
Cheers big ears and all that. And I'm like, my gosh, I see now like what we were doing. But you know, you don't know until you know.
Maureen (09:29.205)
Right, you don't know until you know. And for me, the anxiety and the depression kept getting worse and just building upon itself. And I finally started to think about it and I'm like, I think after I drink a lot on the weekends, my depression is bad for almost three, four days during the week. And part of that's being older, you don't metabolize alcohol as well, but also I am a person who has a depressive tendency and
and was on antidepressants, like many, many people who are drinking are taking antidepressants, which is another episode. But, you know, I started to, as I do research things and started looking up alcohol -induced anxiety, alcohol -induced depression, and sure enough, there's big links between drinking alcohol and the effect on your brain chemistry and that it deepens someone who already has anxiety and depression, it only makes it worse.
Sally Webber (10:27.683)
Yeah, the one thing I love about you is how you're like a dog with a bone. Once you get something in your brain, you research the bejesus out of it. And so it was almost kind of like, OK, Maureen's going to look into that, and she'll get back to me. OK, Maureen's going to read that, and she'll get back to me. And I can remember any, not necessarily diets, but anything having to do with health and fitness and functionality you were always bringing to the table. And I was like, I'm going to go to the gym. like, I'm going to go to the gym.
Maureen (10:39.989)
Ha ha!
Sally Webber (10:54.051)
we would go down those roads okay, we're gonna back off or we're gonna fast or we're gonna try, you know, this diet or this eating plan or what, or this exercise or now let's do a 5K. Okay, well now let's do a Spartan run. I never did that. This one did that. But so you were always trying to figure it out. And I loved that about you. And I loved how you never lost your passion for what truly was meaningful for you. And that was fitness and exercise.
because there was always room for that.
Maureen (11:25.973)
Yeah, as well as a former trainer and even a fitness competitor, I do love fitness, but towards the end of my drinking, even that was starting to suffer. I would skip workouts, I would show up half -assed and that was another big red flag for me, like really out of alignment with my integrity and my character and it just wasn't feeling good anymore. And so through doing all that research, I did find a coaching program,
And I remember reaching out to you and saying, so look, I'm going to stop drinking and I'm going to do this year -long coaching program because I just really have to make a change. Do you remember that? Yeah.
Sally Webber (12:07.875)
I do. I do. I was so excited for you because I knew, again, dog with a bone, I knew you would do it and I knew that I would follow because that's what I do. Maureen's doing it. Okay, I'll do it too. Yeah, I was relieved because I know towards the end of our drinking and our relationship just really took a nosedive with the drinking as well. my gosh, it was, it makes me, it just hurts my heart when I think about how we
Maureen (12:17.589)
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
you
Maureen (12:31.125)
Yes.
Maureen (12:37.205)
Mm -hmm.
Sally Webber (12:37.827)
really let the relationship be affected by the alcohol, but we didn't know. And so anyway, it's a story for another time, but I lost my train of thought. yeah, yeah, yeah. I was so excited because I knew we had been, I mean, we had been partners in crime for how many years, Maureen? Like seven? I mean, we had been, we were best friends very quickly. I mean, fast, fast friends.
Maureen (12:41.909)
I didn't know.
Maureen (12:47.637)
You said you're excited that I was going to do this. Yeah.
Maureen (12:57.269)
Right?
Sally Webber (13:04.803)
And as soon as we connected, it was like there was no separation. And it didn't bother anybody. It didn't bother Maureen and I, but it bothered everybody around us. But yeah, I was really excited. I was happy for you, first and foremost, because I knew we had been talking about it, and I knew that something was brewing. But I have to say, I was very selfish, because I knew that I would do it because you were doing it. And you were going to go forward. And I was afraid. I was always so afraid. I was afraid of my shadow while I was drinking.
Maureen (13:10.485)
Bye!
Sally Webber (13:34.371)
and that gave me a tremendous sense of peace that you were gonna go and you were gonna figure it out, because I knew you would.
Maureen (13:39.989)
Yeah, isn't that funny? You know, you drink for calm and to relax and yet it really increases the fear, like you said, or the social anxiety. It kind of hits you on the back end. Like it does it for a little bit, alcohol, but really the whiplash effect is so much longer lasting.
Sally Webber (13:58.723)
You were so right. I was just thinking like I can't even remember the last time I had a drink. It's been, it's been so long. It's not been forever, but just trying to put myself back into that mindset. It's just like, it just makes me feel, it just, I'm so happy. I'm so blessed. I'm so thankful and so grateful for where I am right now in this moment.
Maureen (14:12.213)
Right.
Maureen (14:17.653)
Yeah.
Maureen (14:21.493)
Me too. And, you know, we did go through the fire and I think it was interesting that we couldn't see that alcohol was such a, the problem really, because we wouldn't fight otherwise, you know, we wouldn't have drama otherwise. And it's alcohol changes you, it changes who you are, the more you drink, you know, in that specific drinking session or over time, you're more irritable, you know, drama, crying, blah, blah, blah, stuff that like we just don't.
do now. So I think that power of denial is so interesting with alcohol too, but we can only really see it. But now on the other side of alcohol looking back, it's so clear to me. How about you?
Sally Webber (15:02.531)
Mm -hmm. Well, yeah, the same. And you know, I was just thinking, you know, because just giving us grace, I grew up in a time where drinking was kind of like a rite of passage. I mean, it was a big deal to turn 21. It was a big deal to like have your first drink or who was going to take you out and where would you go? There was never the awareness of alcohol and what it is. We didn't have that. And so.
Maureen (15:15.989)
Mm -hmm.
Sally Webber (15:31.651)
I for you, I mean, it was modeled for me. It was sophisticated to have a glass of wine with dinner and it was sophisticated to have a martini and it was sophisticated when you got dressed up and that's what you did. And I remember so vividly when we were drinking, this is gonna sound so judgy, but we were never those, we were never like the puddle on the floor. I mean, we were never, okay, well, when we were hanging out and drinking.
Maureen (15:35.157)
Mm -hmm.
Maureen (15:56.021)
I turned into puddles sometimes. Yeah.
Sally Webber (16:01.635)
We were never that. It was always fun. It was always about the party and what was next. And that was early in our drinking, but earlier, yeah, earlier in the drinking. But I just, I never, you know, nobody ever said, and I don't really, you know, I'm sorry, I'm thinking as I'm talking, I mean, I don't know what I thought. How did I think that people turned into alcoholics and ended up on the side of the road? I kept thinking, well, that don't ever happen to me because I'm smart and I have a good job and.
Maureen (16:08.405)
early.
Sally Webber (16:30.371)
You know, I'm not gonna ever let that happen to me, but look what I let, look what I allowed to happen to me. So it, you know, it doesn't, it doesn't care who you are or where you come from or what your background is. It's an addictive substance.
Maureen (16:43.093)
Yeah, so it's not that you allowed it, it's that the more, and me neither, it's the more you drink an addictive substance, you're playing with fire, put it under the right circumstances, you know, throw in a little depression, anxiety, family situations, you know, whatever stressful work, then you start to increase your reliance on it and your brain learns, this is what you do when you're stressed, when you have social anxiety, when life gets hard and we're taught that, like you said, we're taught that and we're also taught this is how you celebrate too.
Sally Webber (16:50.915)
Bye.
Maureen (17:11.989)
So unlearning all that, both of us unlearning all that has been such an interesting process together. And now when we go out to dinner, it's so different, right? I come home and I say to John, I say to my husband like, boy, I remember the days and you'd be worried when I go out with Sally and you'd wonder if you'd get a phone call, when are we coming, when will we be coming home or did you have to come get us or, you know, he's he's
Sally Webber (17:22.467)
Yeah!
Sally Webber (17:35.011)
I know, I always felt like I was checking out a library book when you and I went out. It's like, when is she going to be, be, know, this is how long she can be gone, and when is she going back home? It's like, yeah. But yeah.
Maureen (17:38.293)
Ha ha ha!
Maureen (17:44.117)
But, you know, it's because he knew I came home a different person. But, you know, so then when did you, I know, how long was I doing coaching and you started to join a couple of months afterwards?
Sally Webber (17:56.195)
Yeah, you started in September and I didn't jump until January. January the second. Because I couldn't do it on the first.
Maureen (18:03.765)
Yeah. So how do you feel now? You know, what are your big aha's? You mentioned the word awareness. We weren't aware and then we became aware. And I think awareness is probably the most painful place to be because you're aware, you're like, I'm drinking too much, but I don't look like that end stage drinker that needs medical intervention. I have a job, like you said, I have a family, I work out, you know, I'm the gray area drinker.
I'm drinking too much and I know it's affecting things. That awareness is like such a painful place and people can stay stuck in it for five to ten years.
Sally Webber (18:37.699)
And I think that I definitely was in that state because I mean, you know, we talked about it often about, you know, not drinking so much or cleaning up our act and what are we going to do and how are we going to do it? I definitely remember several years of feeling like if we could just let this go, if I could just let this go. But see, I was so weak. I need the first thing I said to you was. was.
Maureen (18:46.869)
Mm -hmm.
Maureen (19:04.469)
I'm going to stop you there.
Sally Webber (19:06.627)
I know, but I get to say it because I'm saying it about myself, not in a bad way. But even then I said we like I needed somebody and something because I thought that I was so broken and so messed up that I couldn't do it on my own. I was so duped by the alcohol because at that point I had been drinking pretty steadily and pretty heavily for, I don't know, eight to 10 years. It was
Maureen (19:20.661)
Yeah.
Sally Webber (19:36.195)
all that I knew. And so if I had a couple of days where I didn't drink, I was so proud of myself for holding on for those couple of days of not drinking. I never really took stock of the effect. And you have to have, I mean, there has to be more time than a couple of days, obviously, of not drinking to really see the benefit. But I never gave myself a fighting chance. Never gave myself a fighting chance. So I was stuck in that cognitive dissonance for at least three to five years, I would say, at least.
Maureen (20:04.981)
Yeah, but I think you can't really give yourself a chance as you use the word until you start getting more information, until you start understanding, okay, alcohol is an addictive substance, even though it's legal, even though it's glorified, even though it's romanticized. The fact is it's a toxic addictive substance. Like that was a huge aha for me when I really understood that.
Sally Webber (20:11.075)
Yes!
Sally Webber (20:28.323)
Yeah, and that was very sexy for me. I love the thought that I don't have to identify as an alcoholic, because again, in my brain, I had alcoholic hobo in the gutter street. I was like, I just don't identify with that, but I know that I have a problem. And so when I really started to go through that program with Annie in the path and watching those videos,
Maureen (20:45.333)
Mm -hmm.
Maureen (20:52.117)
Mm -hmm.
Sally Webber (20:55.715)
It was almost kind of like a get out of free jail card. I was like, my gosh, this makes so much sense. This makes so much sense. It was almost kind of like watching those videos. I kind of got my mojo back. It was like, okay, this is making sense now. It's not like alcohol and alcoholism or alcoholics or alcohol disorder, whatever you want to call it. It's not this mystical, magical thing that.
Maureen (21:14.965)
label.
Sally Webber (21:21.219)
decides, OK, well, it's going to pick Sally and it's going to pick Maureen and it's going to pick Tom and it's going to pick Dick and Harry and Sue and Betty. It made so much more sense to me, which then put me in the driver's seat. I'm like, my God, I have control over this because now I know I just I never knew any differently. Nobody ever said to me, you better watch out. This is an addictive substance and you're going to become an addict. I mean.
Maureen (21:35.541)
Yes.
Maureen (21:43.189)
Right?
Sally Webber (21:48.963)
It just makes so much sense. I can see it so clearly now, but I could not see it then.
Maureen (21:54.389)
Yeah, and we all have to give ourselves grace too because we're inundated with messages that unless you look like the hobo, as you said, you know, in the gutter, then you don't need to reevaluate your relationship with alcohol. You know, there's no reason. But really, you know, when you say I have a problem or you had a problem, it became a problem for us. It was affecting us. And that's, you know, that's all the...
the impetus you need to start looking into it if it's no longer serving you. And it was no longer serving me or you or our friendship, you know. And I'm so glad we did it together and, you know, have grown together and come out on the other side. And yeah, I just, I'm so grateful for our friendship and for all that we've learned and been through, you know. And...
Sally Webber (22:41.603)
Yeah, I just have so much appreciation and so much respect for you, far more than I ever did while we were drinking. I mean, I love, love, love, loved you and you are my, you know, you are my person, but I just, I see you, I see you for who you really are. And that's, that's what I love so much. I have so much respect for you and what you're doing and how you've taken yourself out and you were kind enough to offer what you're in from, what you found to me. I don't, you know, you didn't have to.
Maureen (22:48.021)
Thank you.
Maureen (22:59.381)
Yeah.
Sally Webber (23:11.427)
So I'm so, cause I think that's why I think you're doing exactly what you need to do. You need to be doing.
Maureen (23:15.317)
Well, I've always been a coach of sorts. And so it just made sense to get into this coaching. Cause I'm like, wow, if everybody else could learn this, this would be great. You know, it's an uphill, it's an uphill struggle for people. I get it because we're just inundated with alcohol all the time. But I think sharing stories, especially like ours, cause a lot of people are like, I'm going to lose my friends and you know, what will happen. And you know, that just shows you that the people that are your real friends.
that are your true friends and you might lose some of your drinking buddies. I mean, there's certainly people that I only drank with and that was the only thing we, you know, connected over and it wasn't even a real connection. Sure, they fell by the wayside because I'm no longer drinking and they don't want to see that, you know, and I get it. I didn't remember, I remember you and I when people would be like, you know, if we were out at a bar and someone would be like, I'm not drinking, we'd be like, what? And we'll see you later. Yeah, we, yeah, I remember that one.
Sally Webber (24:10.051)
Exactly. We don't trust you.
Maureen (24:13.557)
So I can so relate and I know you can too. So if there are people that are listening now, I just want to give you hope that you can change, you can learn about the truth about alcohol and your true friends are probably struggling with it themselves. They're gray area drinkers. They wake up at three in the morning. They're like, why did I do that again? I feel so bad, but I don't want to tell anybody. So the more we talk about it, but...
Also, it's just so important to know you can go from drinking buddies to sober sisters and have an even better relationship. So I can tell you that Sally will be on this podcast many other times. We have many things to delve into, but today it was all about coming through the alcohol haze, even stronger friendship on the other side. So I hope that gives other people hope that you will retain your important friendships and they'll even deepen.
Sally Webber (24:48.291)
Yeah.
Sally Webber (25:10.915)
yes, yeah, I never thought that you and I would be where we are today and I never thought that our relationship could be more, substantially more meaningful. And we spend less time with one another now, but the time that we do spend is, I mean, it's meaty and it's juicy because it's over connection, because we choose to spend time with one another, we wanna be with one another, we care about what's happening in each other's lives, in each other's worlds, you know, we're that.
It's not just Party City with Sally and Maureen. Yeah.
Maureen (25:44.789)
It's a real connection. I love that you said that. Yeah, I agree. So like, what is your like big takeaway if you were to share with somebody who, as you know, people often say, well, I'm afraid about what my friends will think. Like, what would your message be to people out there?
Sally Webber (26:00.995)
Be afraid, be afraid, it's okay. Because yeah, it's okay to be afraid because it's a very real feeling. But if you're feeling that way, I would start asking yourself the bigger questions. Like, what am I so afraid of? Why am I afraid? Because that's, for me, when I started asking those better questions, like, why am I drinking? What is it about the alcohol that keeps me coming back to this?
Maureen (26:04.117)
It's okay to be afraid.
Sally Webber (26:30.531)
and fear is just a way of keeping us separated from something that's really good. That's my biggest takeaway. That fear is not of this, maybe an old Bible thumpy, but the enemy is not flesh and blood. He's just not, you know, he wants to keep us down. They, you know, it's, it's, it's, and it's easier to live in fear. It's easier to live and stay stuck in that mode. and.
Maureen (26:40.437)
Mm -hmm.
Sally Webber (26:58.691)
I was just tired of it. I just, I saw nothing good coming from it. You know, you and I had fallen away. That was devastating. You know, there were other things, other relationships in my life that weren't great, other things in my life that weren't great. And it just got to the point where it didn't matter. I was more afraid of not giving it up than I was afraid of continuing on the path that I was headed. Cause I knew I was on a very slippery slope.
Maureen (27:25.269)
Yeah, and I think you make such a key point. Ask the question. So instead of, you know, am I an alcoholic, which many of us Google and it's natural that that's the first go -to question. Instead, you know, is alcohol still serving me in some way? Is it adding to my life or is it taking away? Is it adding to my relationships or is it taking away? You know, you're so right. Start asking the questions and be curious. That's like such a statement we'll use a lot. Be curious and ask the questions. So...
Thank you so much, Sally, for coming on. I of course love talking with you. I'll see you later. All right. Thank you.
Sally Webber (28:03.587)
You're welcome, honey.
