Maureen Benkovich (00:01.497)
Welcome to another episode of Sober Fit Life. I'm your coach Maureen Bankovich with Sober Fit Chick Coaching and I am absolutely excited to have my friend Jennifer Salzman here with me on Sober Fit Life. So I'm going to tell you a little bit about Jennifer and then let her take it away and tell you her story. Jennifer is an ADHD advocate and mindfulness practitioner and alcohol-free life coach. She spent more than 20 years self-medicating her
undiagnosed ADHD with alcohol, drugs, and other unhealthy behaviors because she just didn't have the proper tools to cope. After receiving an ADHD diagnosis in her 40s, she finally took control of her addictions and made it her mission to strip alcohol of its power and find healthier ways to deal with her stress. And today she helps others do the same thing through her one-on-one coaching programs and online courses. So, welcome Jennifer.
Jennifer (00:58.23)
Hi, thank you. So excited to be doing this, because I know you've been talking about your podcast for a while and it's here. It's so exciting.
Maureen Benkovich (01:05.803)
I know. I'm so excited to have you on. Jennifer and I, we both went through a coaching program to help us change our relationship with alcohol. And then we both went through coach training and that's how we've gotten to know each other. And we've stayed in touch and just supported each other. And it's been really interesting to see where our journeys have taken us. And you, Jennifer, have really focused and laser focused in on ADHD because you obviously understand it so much and relate to it.
I'd love it if you could share some of your story with us and take it from there.
Jennifer (01:41.046)
Sure, so I wasn't diagnosed with ADHD until I was 41. So I spent my entire adult, well, my entire life really, feeling this weirdness about me that I didn't understand what it was. I just thought that it was this character flaw and I was just uniquely flawed in some way, but I couldn't pinpoint quite what it was. And when I discovered alcohol in high school, it kind of made all of that
Maureen Benkovich (01:45.902)
Wow.
Jennifer (02:11.082)
Weirdness that feel that constant chatter in my brain that told me I'm not good enough. I'm lazy I'm crazy. I'm all of these terrible things it shut off that noise and it became my best friend and you know fast forward and and I never I Never thought of alcohol is really a problem for me until later in life so, you know, I was drinking with my friends and it was quote-unquote normal and
Maureen Benkovich (02:39.332)
Right.
Jennifer (02:41.086)
It didn't really start to become a problem until I got divorced because even though I drank up until that point, when I was living on my own for the first time and I had to sort of start my social life over again and I was going out by myself and I was dating again and all of these things, the alcohol was my new partner. Alcohol joined me on all of my outings and it allowed me to sort of
stop grieving over the divorce, which in itself was not, it made me not be sad, but over time it made things a lot worse. So I would say like, I noticed the alcohol got pretty bad when I was right around the same time that I was diagnosed with ADHD.
Maureen Benkovich (03:15.821)
Hmm.
Maureen Benkovich (03:23.682)
Right.
Maureen Benkovich (03:32.917)
Okay. So I thought it was interesting that you said when you were younger and you first started drinking, it became your best friend. And then also once you got divorced, it was your new partner. So really kind of like personifying alcohol.
Jennifer (03:42.474)
Yeah.
Yep, alcohol has been with me since my teenage years and it was always something that just made me feel better. I mean, it really did. You know, it got to a point where, as we know, you know, it's progressive and the more years you spend doing it, the more you drink and that friend becomes an abusive, toxic friend, but it was always with me and it was fun until it wasn't.
Maureen Benkovich (03:55.225)
Mm-hmm.
Maureen Benkovich (04:08.59)
Yes.
Jennifer (04:13.054)
It was hard to ever even imagine that I could exist in the world as a non-drinker, but I'm approaching four years alcohol-free. So I was wrong, yeah.
Maureen Benkovich (04:22.485)
that's incredible. Yes. Yeah. So when did that point come where it was fun until it wasn't?
Jennifer (04:29.217)
So the truth is, so when I went through that divorce, it was a choice. I left that marriage because it wasn't a good one and it was my choice to leave. And so I couldn't wait to sort of be free and go out and have a good time because the marriage was very oppressive to me. And so I was having a great time. I'm like, I'm independent, I'm partying, I'm dating, I'm in my 40s, I could do whatever I want. And I...
I never stopped to think like there's a difference between pleasure and happiness. And even though I was having a lot of fun, it wasn't happiness. It was avoidance of my sadness and my grief and the loss of the marriage. Even though I chose to leave it, was still, I was with this person for 10 years.
Maureen Benkovich (05:06.137)
Hmm.
Jennifer (05:27.062)
And it was a loss because I went from being a married person to being a non-married person. I think I got, like in the beginning it helped, but I think it just, I lost control. And so all of this fun that I thought I was having, it started to become something I needed. And then I realized, wait a minute, I'm not even going out and having fun anymore. I'm just home watching TV, drinking a bottle of wine by myself. So, you know.
Maureen Benkovich (05:53.209)
Drinking, yeah, yeah. Let me stop you there, because that was so interesting, because now you're dealing with layers of reasons why you're drinking. So there's the ADHD that's been going on since childhood, and you still are not diagnosed. And then the divorce and really not dealing with the grief and the sadness. And then I think that third layer that so many of us women feel is like, I'm independent and this is sophisticated and it's empowering and this is what women do.
You know, I hear a lot in there that I can relate to because I wasn't grieving around my own issues, around not being a mother and not having children, as you know my story. So I too was numbing, so I get that. But tell me about, so you're dealing with all of those feelings and now at this point you're home drinking by yourself and you thought, a minute, I'm not having any fun anymore, what's going on here?
Jennifer (06:45.674)
Yeah, yeah, well that was like, that was at the end. I think the, so it's interesting, so just to rewind a little. So I got divorced and I was seeing a psychiatrist because I was sad about the divorce and I was taking antidepressants for that. But when I was seeing, every time I had a session with the psychiatrist and I'm talking about the things that were really bothering me in addition to being sad about this life transition,
Maureen Benkovich (06:49.071)
Mm.
Jennifer (07:15.122)
It was like I couldn't get my work done. I was very emotionally volatile. I was getting into fights with people. I was over drinking. I mean, that was a symptom of the ADHD was the excessive drinking because I was self-medicating for so many years, which I didn't realize.
Maureen Benkovich (07:27.875)
Mm-hmm.
Maureen Benkovich (07:35.598)
Jennifer (07:39.018)
And I just kept rattling off all of these symptoms of ADHD. And so the doctor said to me, this sounds like ADHD. Have you ever been assessed for ADHD? And I said, no. I was actually offended. said, I don't need another mental health issue to worry about now. Like, what is this ADHD thing? But when he gave me the assessment for it, I'm like off the charts, ADHD. And the truth is in that moment, this light bulb went off and I was like,
Maureen Benkovich (07:52.793)
Mm-hmm.
Jennifer (08:08.07)
so this is what has been plaguing me my entire life. And it's sort of everything started to make sense. Now I didn't quit drinking right away. It still took a few years before I put those two things together and realized like that even though the alcohol was helping me to sort of self-medicate, it was also exacerbating some of the symptoms. And it wasn't until I actually quit drinking.
that I really learned more about ADHD and how it affected me and started talking about it on social media and realized there are tons of other people just like me who have been using alcohol to self-medicate. So I don't...
Maureen Benkovich (08:52.857)
Yeah, I think it's actually very common that people with ADHD and other mental disorders like I did with depression and anxiety self-medicate. So what did that mean when he said you have ADHD? What are the symptoms? You said one of them is over drinking.
Jennifer (09:09.236)
Yeah, so over drinking was one of them. Executive function is a big piece of it. Whereas like I, I think I'm relatively intelligent and capable, but the ability to actually get my work done if I wasn't interested in it or there wasn't some sort of urgent deadline, I couldn't do it. And I, you know, I had a corporate job and this VP title and you know, I managed to stay there for about, you know, six years, but it was
getting the work done was I avoided getting it done for a long time and I felt and the guilt that I felt for not actually doing the work and always scrambling to get things done last minute. So there was like the guilt on top of that. There was a big piece of ADHD that I didn't realize was a symptom is emotional dysregulation. So just flying off the handle at the littlest perceived
criticism or rejection would just I would lose it and You know just really prone to anger very reactive Very impulsive. I mean, you know, I made a lot of pretty crazy decisions as a person with ADHD and then on adding alcohol on top of that without the judgment to stop myself from doing certain things, know made it a lot worse, so Yeah
Maureen Benkovich (10:34.211)
Right.
Jennifer (10:39.99)
I don't know that answers your question.
Maureen Benkovich (10:40.303)
And also I would think drinking, the backlash of that is being more irritable and not being able to handle emotional stress. So you already have the ADHD with this emotional dysregulation and then alcohol furthers and deepens that emotional dysregulation. But of course you didn't know it when you were doing it. So when you stopped drinking, what did that feel like? Did you start to notice a difference in yourself?
Jennifer (10:58.143)
Exactly.
Jennifer (11:07.07)
Yes, because when I stopped drinking all these symptoms that I had, I thought that I was masking and I thought that I was helping, I was just sort of out there in raw form, living. And I wasn't taking any medication for the ADHD. I wasn't drinking anymore. I wasn't self-medicating. And I just realized, I didn't know who I was. I didn't know who I was without...
Maureen Benkovich (11:35.823)
Hmm.
Jennifer (11:35.882)
the drinking and without lashing out at others and without like this beating myself up and this negative self-talk, right? And that's when I started to research ADHD more because I was hyper aware of all of these feelings that I was having and, you know, having a really hard time getting organized and following through on tasks and just feeling
I had nothing to numb the pain anymore. And so I would just get hit with this emotion, like out of the clear blue sky, I would just be cooking dinner or walking my dog and get this wave of sadness and pain. And I didn't know where it was coming from or why. And I started going online and following some like ADHD content creators and
Maureen Benkovich (12:20.559)
Hmm.
Jennifer (12:32.479)
I actually went on Reddit and there was like a support group for people to talk about their ADHD symptoms. And I'm like, wow, I never really thought about this before. Like I knew I had ADHD. I knew what the symptoms were. I knew I was drinking too much, but I never realized how they were so linked and that some of these like personality defects that I thought I had, these character flaws that I thought I was just kind of a not a good person wasn't.
Maureen Benkovich (13:01.135)
Mm.
Jennifer (13:01.82)
my character. It was just that my brain sort of processes the world around me in a different way and the world wasn't built for the way that I think and the way that I move through the world. And so that's why it was always so frustrating and I felt so bad about myself. So, you know, I made it my mission to figure out how can I live in the world as a non-drinker because I knew alcohol was not doing me any favors. And how do I manage these symptoms and, you know, be a grown up?
because it was time for me to sort of like take control of these symptoms that I was just, I just felt like I just didn't have a handle on.
Maureen Benkovich (13:44.835)
Yeah, let me go back to the fact that you started, you know, investigating and looking into areas where you started to see other people like you. So that was when you started to first realize I'm not alone and there are other people like me. And so hearing their stories is what helped you further your research and really want to understand yourself. So I think it's important for people to hear that. And the same thing with me, just because we stopped drinking.
and remove the alcohol, we were both still dealing with our issues, you, your ADHD and me, my depression. So then you have to do the deeper work to look deeper. But you can do it so much better without alcohol because you're becoming more regulated emotionally and physiology is becoming more regulated. But you still had to dig deeper and understand yourself more. And you have really taken that to the next level. You've become one of those experts, actually.
in the ADHD field and having to do with alcohol.
Jennifer (14:46.922)
Yeah. Well, you and I have talked about this before. It's never about the alcohol, right? The alcohol is actually a way of us to self soothe. And you you said it in the beginning, it's like, I just didn't have the proper tools to cope. And you know, being in my fifties, when I was a kid, little girls were not diagnosed with ADHD, right? It just wasn't even a thing. was, and one of the symptoms that is, really interesting that I didn't
Maureen Benkovich (14:50.967)
Mm-hmm.
Jennifer (15:15.902)
understand until you the last couple of years is that you you think of like little little boys that are hyperactive and acting out but in girls a lot of times the hyperactivity is internal so it's not like I'm running around but my brain is running around and so I've I have like you know a hundred different conversations happening in my brain all the time and that's why the issue of focus comes up because it's like I don't it's not that I can't focus
Maureen Benkovich (15:33.947)
interesting.
Jennifer (15:44.574)
It's like I'm paying too much attention to everything and I can't pick the thing that I should prioritize. So.
Maureen Benkovich (15:54.297)
Yeah, so without alcohol, then you had to learn the skill of how to do that. So what do you do to slow down your brain or calm down those thoughts? What does that look like for you now?
Jennifer (16:05.236)
Yeah. So awareness was the first piece of it and realizing that I'm not crazy. that there are tools that are available and it's not just medication or therapy or any of that, but I can have like self soothing tools such as mindfulness. And I discovered mindfulness. didn't really, I've heard, I had heard the term. I didn't really understand what it meant and
Maureen Benkovich (16:08.332)
always.
Maureen Benkovich (16:28.943)
Mm-hmm.
Jennifer (16:31.338)
You know, I thought it's like sitting and having a guru and a mantra and being still and having no thoughts and that's not what it is. It's really just becoming aware of the present moment without judging it, without trying to change the way you feel, but just becoming present in the moment and aware of what's happening inside of you and what's happening around you so that you can pause and take a step back when you're responding to any sort of trigger as opposed to just reacting.
Maureen Benkovich (16:55.225)
Yes.
Maureen Benkovich (17:01.551)
Mm-hmm.
Jennifer (17:01.618)
And I used to be the queen of just reacting. Somebody would say something, I didn't like the way it sounded, I felt criticized in some way, and I would lash out. Now, I'm like, I realize like we're creating the story, we create the meaning to any external trigger. And what am going to make that mean? Like, yes, maybe you hurt my feelings for a minute, but I don't have to let that define me just because you don't like curly hair.
Maureen Benkovich (17:09.998)
Hmm.
Jennifer (17:28.414)
and you tell me that my curly hair is ugly, it doesn't mean it's true. Right? And so I have the power to take a step back and say, no, I get to choose who I am and whether or not my hair is nice or not. You know, I mean, that's a...
Maureen Benkovich (17:33.309)
Right.
Maureen Benkovich (17:44.217)
Yeah, it's so interesting. It sounds very similar to the process we went through when we were reevaluating our relationship with alcohol and we had those kind of cravings, you I need to drink to have fun or I need to drink to calm my social anxiety. And you ask yourselves those questions. Is it true? What do I really need right now? What am I making this mean? And it sounds like the same process you actually apply to when you're feeling emotionally dysregulated instead of taking a drink.
Jennifer (18:11.638)
Absolutely. Right. The drink is the easy button. The drink shuts down our nervous system. It slows everything down. So it doesn't make the problems go away. It just allows us to avoid them temporarily. And when I finally got to the point where I knew it was time to change my relationship with alcohol, when I thought about my life and every little problem, every big problem and every little problem,
Maureen Benkovich (18:39.556)
Mm-hmm.
Jennifer (18:40.254)
there was a common denominator and that was alcohol. And so I said, this is one thing that I can do for myself. At least try. I have never said that I'm never drinking again. I never said it then. I've never said it since. I don't know. I know that I don't want to. I don't know that I never will. Right? So
Maureen Benkovich (19:02.457)
Yeah, I get that. I I share that with my clients too, because you know, we know that if you keep that in front of you, I mean, I can never drink again, then that's such a defeating thought. So, but I think we both feel the same way. All that we've learned about alcohol and what it does to our central nervous system and our emotions. It's like, why would we choose that knowing how bad it really is for us? But I get what you're saying. You don't need to make this declaration. I'm never going to drink again.
Jennifer (19:28.692)
Right, that's too scary. Forever is way too long. And so I never said that, but I knew that I needed a break. And I said, this is one thing that I have control over that I can do for myself. I don't, nobody's forcing me to put that alcohol into my body. I'm doing it by choice and I have the choice to not do it. And I'm not saying that it's easy to just put it down and just walk away and you never are tempted again, but we do have the choice to.
put it down. And like you said, you know, that's when the work starts because once that easy button is gone, once that self soothing, that drug, that drink, my partner and my best friend, as toxic as they were, now that they're gone, like I have to deal with my life and how am I going to choose to do that? And there are so many tools at our disposal now, right? I mean,
Maureen Benkovich (20:02.201)
Mm-hmm.
Maureen Benkovich (20:21.165)
Yeah. So you mentioned mindfulness. That's a big one. What's another big tool you'd like to recommend and talk with your clients about? So hard, isn't it?
Jennifer (20:29.544)
self-compassion, self-acceptance. And it's hard, but it's also like, and it goes back to the mindfulness piece. It's accepting that I'm having these feelings and they're valid. My feelings are valid no matter what, but how I deal with them is important. I can't just like willy-nilly be yelling at people and being abusive towards people and...
Maureen Benkovich (20:46.788)
Yes.
Jennifer (20:57.662)
allowing people to abuse me and just going through life, sort of reacting to everything. So accepting that this is who I am and maybe I work a little bit differently and I think a little bit differently and that's okay. And I'm not everybody's cup of tea and that's okay too. And being a people pleaser, it doesn't work. It's not genuine when you're doing it just.
Maureen Benkovich (21:17.711)
That's okay.
Jennifer (21:24.928)
for fear of what people think of you, right? So walking away from being a people pleaser, allowing yourself to have compassion for yourself when you don't do things perfectly, because who does? And just accepting who we are.
Maureen Benkovich (21:40.793)
Yeah. I think that applies to so many things across the board, not just people with ADHD, but it's such wise advice, but it's a challenging thing to learn that these things need to be practiced and they're not going to happen automatically.
Jennifer (21:45.727)
Absolutely.
Jennifer (21:56.662)
100%. I mean, and you know this as a fitness person. I mean, you don't just like walk by the gym in a cute outfit and say like, I'm fit now, right? You have to like go into the gym and like, if you've never worked out before, you start with the two pound weights and you do, you know, for a couple of days, maybe you move up to the five pound weights and then a couple of weeks, months into it, you're like cruising with the 10 pound weights and now you can maybe try to bench press, you know, it's, but it's a daily thing. don't just
Maureen Benkovich (22:04.749)
Right?
Maureen Benkovich (22:11.822)
Yes.
Maureen Benkovich (22:25.827)
It's a progression.
Jennifer (22:26.934)
It's a progression like anything I'm looking at. have a piano that I haven't been practicing lately and at the other side of the room. you know, you only get good if you sit down and you practice every day. And that's what mindfulness is. It's like sitting down five minutes a day and just sort of, you know, grounding yourself and like feeling the earth beneath your feet and noticing like my hands feel cold right now, noticing your breath, noticing that I have like a little dryness on my
Maureen Benkovich (22:29.156)
Yes.
Maureen Benkovich (22:51.929)
Mm-hmm.
Jennifer (22:56.764)
mouth right here noticing all these things and allowing yourself to be present because the truth is when you're feeling anxious it's because you're worrying about something that has not happened yet right it's the future when you're feeling depressed if you're worrying about stuff that already happened that you cannot change but when you're present it's really hard to be anxious or depressed and so that allows you to sort of be accepting of
Maureen Benkovich (23:16.579)
Mm-hmm.
Jennifer (23:26.483)
what is, have gratitude for what is, that I am able-bodied, pretty able-minded, I've got a roof over my head and food in the fridge and people that care about me and the things that matter. And I think like we get so caught up in stuff that doesn't matter. And that's why we turn to substances and, you know, bad behavior.
Maureen Benkovich (23:33.601)
Yeah.
Maureen Benkovich (23:45.495)
And it's easy to get caught up, right? In stuff that doesn't matter because of the way our world is in this day and age right now. So how do you encourage people with all the social media, all the stimuli, all the constantly being on or in fight or flight all the time? What do you share with your clients who have ADHD around that?
Jennifer (24:04.714)
tough. But again, it's the pause because between the trigger and the reaction is the pause and we always have the pause. And like life is hard, no matter who you are or where you are or what you do. It's hard. I can't remember, maybe it was Glennon Doyle or somebody that says like, choose your hard. Right? Yeah, you can choose to drink your troubles away.
Maureen Benkovich (24:05.551)
Mm-hmm.
Maureen Benkovich (24:28.345)
I think Glenn and Doyle, yeah.
Jennifer (24:33.78)
but then it causes all of these other issues. So like what's harder, dealing with the uncomfortable feelings or getting drunk and saying something stupid and feeling like crap the next day and you know, saying something.
Maureen Benkovich (24:48.067)
Yeah, so let me do that question now that you have both experiences. What is harder? The person who you used to be who was drinking to not feel all these emotions or the person now who does the work and doesn't drink?
Jennifer (25:01.632)
So, well, I've chosen the hard. They're both hard. But the hard that is much more worth it is to be my authentic self, to not use substances, to try to change the way I feel, because I have the power to do that myself. And the more you do it, the easier it gets, right? So without a doubt, mean, there are trade-offs in life. And if you've spent most of your life socializing with alcohol, you know,
Your lifestyle changes, your relationships change, but I wouldn't trade it for anything. It was worth it, 100%.
Maureen Benkovich (25:38.659)
Yeah, same with me. You've used a word a couple of times that I want to bring up because I know you and I feel pretty strongly about this. Women and empowerment. And you've said you now have the power to make choices. You've taught yourself that. And I feel like alcohol is so disempowering. And we've been sold a bill of goods that it's this what sophisticated women do, know, women who run their own businesses or, you know, manage their...
their household or their children, and this is what they deserve. We've really bought that hook line and sinker from the alcohol advertising that it's somehow empowering, but truly it's so disempowering. I mean, there's more sexual problems with alcohol. There's more self-esteem, self-worth, lack of identity, a lot of things you mentioned, and especially in areas of mental disorders like depression, ADHD, anxiety. It's so disempowering. Like, what are your thoughts on that?
Jennifer (26:37.876)
Well, I have a lot of thoughts on that because I, you know, like I said, as a, I was newly single, you know, taking care of myself, all of these things, and I could just go out and do whatever the heck I wanted to. And part of that was date, dating. And it was fueled with alcohol. And I made a lot of poor choices about who I chose to date, who I chose to share my body with that.
Maureen Benkovich (26:54.649)
Mm-hmm.
Maureen Benkovich (27:06.671)
Mm-hmm.
Jennifer (27:07.624)
I would have never even considered if I wasn't under the influence of alcohol. I think about that now. I'm I'm afraid to let anybody, a stranger into my home, let alone someone I met on Bumble, you know, after having three drinks. And, you know, I think that I'm being this, like I said, independent woman, but like, as far as a man is concerned in that situation, he's like, yeah, she's easier now to get with because she's under the influence.
Your judgment's impaired, your beer goggles are real. And I put myself in a lot of dangerous situations that I would never, ever have done otherwise. And I can only, you know, thank goodness that I survived it and I, know, nothing horrible really happened, but it could have. And I know a lot of people that it has. And so that independence, like I can out drink the men, I'm a party girl.
Maureen Benkovich (27:42.457)
Mm-hmm.
Jennifer (28:06.134)
is actually the opposite of really what you think it's doing. It's doing the opposite.
Maureen Benkovich (28:12.579)
Yeah, thank you so much for being real and sharing that because so many women have done exactly what you're talking about and the dating world is very hard and alcohol just fuels so many bad decisions. you know, so I really appreciate you, you know, sharing that. I know I have made so many bad decisions under the influence of alcohol and that I would never do just like you said, not drinking. So, so disempowering because it's out of alignment with who you really are. And that doesn't feel good.
Jennifer (28:40.16)
Right, absolutely. And then waking up and thinking like, who is this? Who am I? What just happened? And you can't take it back once it happens, right?
Maureen Benkovich (28:50.19)
but we can learn from it, right? Yeah. And share the wisdom, which is what you're doing. You have to see Jennifer's TikTok. She's amazing. So you have really turned into this promoter, influencer. You've really gotten a handle on how to use TikTok and share your message and tell people a little bit about that, what you've transitioned into.
Jennifer (28:51.902)
Absolutely.
Jennifer (29:11.517)
Yeah. Well, it's never too late. You're never too old to become a social media influencer, which I did not know. I, it's funny, when we got through our coach training, I had a little vision board and one of the things on it was TikTok. I wanted to learn how to use TikTok and I wanted to start making videos and sharing my story because I had seen a lot of other people who were doing the same. So, that was, I don't know, a year and a half or maybe two years ago and
I've built up a significant following over the last two years because of the fact that I'm sharing my story. And when I put that, the ADHD and the alcohol use disorder link and started talking about that on a regular basis, thousands, if not millions of people, you know, it's like, my gosh, I feel seen for the first time. This is exactly my story. I didn't know that the reason I was drinking so much.
Maureen Benkovich (29:45.219)
here.
Maureen Benkovich (29:56.323)
Yes.
Jennifer (30:06.208)
could be related to the fact that I have ADHD. And a lot of late diagnosed women like me were just like, I mean, you wouldn't believe the messages that I get on a daily basis from women who are just like, can't believe, I'm so happy I found your social media. you really understand exactly what I'm going through. So it's been just sort of snowballing. And then I've had, you know, various brands, like I have various brand deals.
for people, different organizations that are either, have products that help people with ADHD or alcohol-free or just mindfulness that come to me and they say, you know, we like what you're doing. Can you talk about our product on your channel? And if I believe in the product, I'm happy to do it. So if anyone had told me four years ago that at the age of 52, I would be a, you know, I hate saying the word influencer, but like a micro influencer.
on TikTok of all places, I would have laughed, but it's true. And it has really, I've learned so much from the app and I know that a lot of people have really been helped by some of my content. So.
Maureen Benkovich (31:05.645)
Right?
Maureen Benkovich (31:09.551)
Maureen Benkovich (31:18.159)
Well, you're so good at it. So how do people find you on TikTok? What is your handle? Rebel without a drink, which I love that. I love that. So frames, you know, sums you up rebel without a drink. So go look for Jennifer on TikTok. And Jennifer, I always ask people at the end, what do you do to be sober fit? Whether it's in the mental, physical or emotional category, what's your sober fitness?
Jennifer (31:21.695)
Rebel without a drink.
Jennifer (31:42.4)
So I have taken up mindful walking. so, you know, walking is one thing, practicing mindfulness is one thing. But when you walk, and sometimes I listen to a practice while I'm walking, whether I'm the dog or walking myself, and it forces you, well not forces you, it encourages you to like feel the ground beneath your feet, to notice the sounds and the smells and...
Maureen Benkovich (32:05.999)
Mm.
Jennifer (32:09.686)
the feeling of the air on your skin. so, especially if you're like me and you have ADHD, we like to stack our habits because it's hard to do, you know, do one thing or another. So we do it all at the same time. So practicing mindfulness while I walk, keeps me moving my body. It keeps me exercising my brain. And it's honestly better than drinking ever was for my feeling good about myself and feeling healthy and all of that.
Maureen Benkovich (32:38.863)
Well, that is a huge vote of confidence for mindful walking. I'm going to have to try this. What's the app that you use?
Jennifer (32:44.362)
There's so many. There's one called Waking Up. That's really good. There's some, yeah, but I mean, if you just Google mindful walking, you'll find a million different like YouTubes or podcasts or whatever. So, highly recommend.
Maureen Benkovich (32:58.583)
Okay. I will definitely do that. And where can people find you, Jennifer, other than TikTok?
Jennifer (33:04.79)
So my website is a mighty rebel calm I'm also on Instagram rebel without a drink And those are my two main platforms. So rebel without a drink if you google that you'll find me also
Maureen Benkovich (33:16.661)
Okay. And go to TikTok, guys. She's amazing. I know when she started this and I've seen what she's done with it. It's incredible. Well, thank you so much for being on here, Jennifer. I love talking to you always. And I hope you continue to help, sounds like women especially are really helping with ADHD late in life, learn they can stop drinking and make healthier choices and feel more empowered and mindful. Great.
Jennifer (33:26.89)
Thank you. Likewise.
Jennifer (33:40.662)
100%. It is possible. I am living proof. Thanks, Maureen.
Maureen Benkovich (33:44.483)
You are living proof. Thank you.
Maureen Benkovich (33:49.251)
Okay, I'm not going to stop recording because I've found that a lot of times we say something after I hit the stop button, that's actually really good. But I can end it at that point where we just ended it. it's so, you know, I'm watching the clock and I'm aware that like 30, 35 minutes is like, you know, the max you want to do for that time period. But there's so many things we could say, you know, so many directions we can head in because you're doing so much good work.
Jennifer (33:57.855)
huh.
Jennifer (34:17.642)
Yeah, I mean, it's, and I'm learning too every day, something new. mean, just learning to focus your attention in new way and catching myself. That's a big thing too. Like I was talking about self-acceptance and self-compassion, but when you get into the habit of practicing mindfulness, you catch yourself when you go like with the negative self-talk or I heard somebody else talk about this probably on TikTok, but she said when she has these intrusive thoughts, she calls them spam.
Maureen Benkovich (34:22.038)
yeah.
Maureen Benkovich (34:31.491)
Mm-hmm.
Jennifer (34:47.37)
Like she notices the spam in her brain. She's like, spam folder. And like, you can immediately just let it go. It's instead of ruminating on a thought, which I can get stuck doing often. So I've learned how to recognize the spam thoughts and put them in the junk folder. yeah, and delete that folder often.
Maureen Benkovich (34:47.384)
I like that.
Maureen Benkovich (34:53.283)
Hmm.
Maureen Benkovich (35:02.585)
Yeah.
Maureen Benkovich (35:06.863)
That's a good tactic. I like that.
Yeah, that is, I mean, I don't have ADHD as far as I know, maybe I do, but I definitely ruminate on things. And I was just doing a lesson from my course on negative self-talk and Dr. Eamon or Amin, I'm not sure how you say his name. He just, he says that it's so amazing that we don't give enough thought to our thoughts. Like, and we have something like 60,000 a day and like 85 % of them are negative and repetitive. Yeah, and not true.
Jennifer (35:24.416)
Mm-hmm.
Jennifer (35:37.77)
and not true.
Maureen Benkovich (35:40.247)
So pausing, like you said, and questioning it and going, is that true? You know, it's so important.
Jennifer (35:47.21)
Yeah, and also the stories that we make up. Because I actually just posted something on...
TikTok and Instagram about rejection sensitivity and how it's one of the defining traits of ADHD is a severe sensitivity to any kind of rejection or perceived rejection, even if it's not real. Because we create the meaning, we make up a story, somebody says something to me and I'll go down this rabbit hole of what they meant by that. And it might have been just a
Maureen Benkovich (36:09.901)
Hmm.
Maureen Benkovich (36:24.547)
Right.
Jennifer (36:26.132)
they said it in passing and it meant nothing. But I can spend an entire day wondering what they meant and beating myself up and it's because of something I said or did or the way I look or, and I'm like, I'm creating this elaborate fairy tale about a comment that somebody said in passing or even a comment that somebody made on my post. And I'm like, I don't even know who this person is. Why? Like there will be a hundred positive
Maureen Benkovich (36:50.083)
Mm-hmm.
Jennifer (36:56.406)
comments and one negative one and I will just go I will spiral and You know, catch myself when I'm going down this spiral of beating myself up for something What are you doing? Like There's no you didn't do anything wrong
Maureen Benkovich (36:57.185)
Right. Me too.
Maureen Benkovich (37:11.895)
Yeah, I mean, that's part of putting ourselves out there. That's the risk we take. And then it does cause, I know me, like you're saying me to examine my own thoughts when I start going down that kind of spiral. And that question, like, what am I making this mean right now is so big. That is my number one tool. And then, you know, is that true? And what am I making this mean? That applies to almost everything for me.
Jennifer (37:35.958)
Yeah, it does. And it's not to say that our anger or our sensitivity isn't valid, because it can be, but to allow it to define who we are and make it mean something negative about us is, you know, it just hurts us in the long run. And the old me would ruminate, get angry and be like, I don't even want, I don't want to think about this. I'm just going to have a drink and that will turn it off.
Maureen Benkovich (37:56.452)
Mm-hmm.
Maureen Benkovich (38:02.457)
drink.
Jennifer (38:05.182)
So, and that's the danger of drinking is that initially it helps, right?
Maureen Benkovich (38:10.787)
Yeah, it helps, but then we teach our brain to not learn how to deal with those things. So having to unravel that and retrain, rewire. Yeah, in the moment, yeah. I mean, nobody would be doing it if it didn't have that first 20 to 30 minute effect that we're looking for. But I'm so grateful I don't drink anymore. I mean, like you said, I'll never say never, but I'm just like, why would I?
Jennifer (38:15.496)
Right, right. Well, we think it helps. Right.
Jennifer (38:26.09)
Right.
Jennifer (38:30.966)
So am I.
Jennifer (38:35.944)
I have, it's almost shocking to me sometimes how I've completely lost my desire to drink considering what a big part of my life it was for so long. I'll be around people drink, I mean, I don't do it often where I'm around a lot of people drinking, but when I see people drinking, I do not envy them at all. I am so grateful that I don't have to drink anymore. I'm so grateful that it's like just out of my life. It's like, it's like any toxic.
Maureen Benkovich (38:46.793)
yeah.
Jennifer (39:04.502)
Partnership. mean that's really what it was like, you know, I see my ex-husband and there I mean I don't see him but if I think about him or if I was you know, there are moments of nostalgia for the few good times you may have had but I don't think like god I wish I could get back together with him like never and it's sort of the same thing, you know
Maureen Benkovich (39:05.474)
Mm-hmm.
Maureen Benkovich (39:21.871)
Yeah, even, I mean, there are moments, like you said, we all started drinking. It wasn't bad. There was some fun, of course, but then it changed. So we can look back on, yes, we had fun until a point and then it was no longer fun. It was actually detrimental. Toxic, like you said.
Jennifer (39:38.966)
Right. Right. Because it's hard. If you're in the you're in the throes of drinking and you and it's part of your social life, it's hard. You know, if somebody like you or me says like, well, alcohol is terrible and you don't you don't really like it because that's not true. Like we're doing it. We did it because there was a benefit. So it's not you know, I'm not going to say like, it was it was just so awful. It did get to a point where it was hurting more than it was helping. But there were I had a lot of fun. I mean, I wouldn't have done it, you know.
Maureen Benkovich (39:59.535)
Mm-hmm.
Maureen Benkovich (40:07.481)
Yeah, yeah, no longer serves you. Yeah, exactly. And that's like the whole big myth, you know, that we think it's helping. But we're learning and the more you like you're sharing this information and I'm sharing this information and it helps reinforce it with us too, just by sharing it constantly.
Jennifer (40:09.12)
But it, yeah, it no longer serves me. And it never really did, but I thought it did.
Jennifer (40:29.076)
Right. And I do think the culture is shifting. mean, there's so, you know, five years ago when I was drinking heavily, I didn't, maybe I wasn't looking for it, but I didn't notice the amount of people like us that were either coaching or creating social media content or offering, know, courses and things like that to help control your drinking. was either like AA or drink. And I was not going to AA. So.
Maureen Benkovich (40:32.452)
Mm-hmm.
Maureen Benkovich (40:55.423)
Mm-hmm. Yes, same here.
Jennifer (40:58.664)
You know, the thought of that, the label of that was just not something that resonated with me. I was too shameful to have to announce to the world that I have this incurable disease that's just waiting for me to, you know, so.
Maureen Benkovich (41:04.045)
Not for you.
Maureen Benkovich (41:12.921)
Yeah. I mean, I think it works for many people, but for me that you're powerless over this. Obviously we've shown that's not true for us. I have friends who in AA and it's worked for them, but we have learned to rewire our brains and choose and we do have power. And I think that's, that has fueled me and you to do all these other things. Cause like, if I can stop drinking, what else can I do? Yeah.
Jennifer (41:20.894)
Right, right.
Jennifer (41:38.098)
be a TikTok star.
Maureen Benkovich (41:41.345)
On that note, we're going to end. That was good. I will stop recording.
Jennifer (41:42.528)
Hahaha.
