Maureen (00:02.149)
Joining me today is Dr. Sarah Poldmae a force in women's health, a doctor of acupuncture and Chinese medicine, functional medicine practitioner, and yoga teacher with over 20 years of experience in the wellness field. She helps women reclaim their vitality, balance their hormones, and navigate midlife with confidence. As the founder of Meadow Hill Wellness, she blends ancient wisdom with modern science. I love that.
Empowering women to tap into their body's innate ability to heal and thrive. She is also the host of Midlife Rise and Thrive podcast where she shares her expertise on women's health and wellness. Today we're diving into alcohol's impact on midlife mindset shifts and how acupuncture can support the nervous system while taking a break from drinking or just all the time. So Dr. Sarah, thank you so much for coming onto the podcast. I'm really happy to have you here. How are you?
Sara (00:57.794)
Good, I'm thrilled to be here. Thank you so much for the invite.
Maureen (00:59.831)
Yeah, thank you. I've taken yoga next to Sarah a couple of times. I had no idea she was a yoga instructor in her own right. So we just discovered that. But you have so graciously offered to share your perspective on alcohol and how your relationship with alcohol has changed over time. And then also what you kind of see in your medical practice when you're trying to help women with midlife and thriving, as you say. Yes, and could you tell us about that?
Sara (01:08.205)
Thank
Sara (01:25.934)
Sure, absolutely. Yeah. Well, I'll start with my journey through perimenopause. It really hit me hard and it hit me by surprise. And this also will weave in alcohol as well. So about five years ago, I had just recently remarried and things were good as far as I knew. I was excited to be newly married. I was making a new home with my current husband. And
Maureen (01:33.998)
Mm-hmm.
Sara (01:54.318)
Everything seemed exciting and joyful. And all of a sudden I had these horrible episodes of tachycardia where my heart was racing at 170 beats per minute for no reason, just sitting at rest. And that is super, super scary.
Maureen (02:07.331)
Yeah.
Sara (02:09.162)
any women out there have experienced anything like that. And so I was freaking out because I've read in medical textbooks and have treated plenty of women that have described having palpitations during perimenopause. But this seemed above and beyond. So I had to navigate through why it was happening. At one point, I actually had my staff at my wellness clinic take me to urgent care because my fingernails turned blue. So I was like really freaked out.
Maureen (02:31.835)
my goodness. Yeah.
Sara (02:37.598)
And being a medical practitioner to be that freaked out over a symptom felt kind of strange because I just wasn't expecting it. wasn't what I had seen in textbooks. So I went to cardiologists. I got every cardiac workup that they thought was appropriate. And it ended up being, yeah, it might just be your hormones. I was like, well, you know, totally no one has told me that, not even my training. So I was like, huh.
Maureen (02:52.366)
Wow.
Maureen (02:56.867)
Right?
Sara (03:00.834)
But the reason this ties into alcohol is because I, during this testing process with my cardiologist, had to wear a two-week halter monitor to measure what was going on in my heart and figure out whether there was anything wrong. And during that time, we had gotten married in August, but we had a trip to Seattle planned where I was wearing the monitor. But before that, we'd had a beautiful reception in September.
Maureen (03:11.032)
Mm-hmm.
Sara (03:30.648)
for about 250 people to celebrate our marriage, because we had gotten married alone or just with close family. And during that party, I was not able to drink because I was put on a heart medication. And I'd never been to a party, I realized, in my adult life, which is crazy to say, looking back. But it was the first time I had had an experience where I was at a party where I couldn't indulge. And not to say I indulged.
Maureen (03:42.894)
Okay.
Maureen (03:55.96)
Yeah, I can relate.
Sara (03:59.022)
heavily at every party I'd ever been to, but it first party where I couldn't have like a glass of wine to unwind. And it was just like such a really weird wake-up call because, you know, when I think back on that night, I had such a lovely night and I really actually engaged in some meaningful connection, even though there were 175 or 200 people. I don't even know how many people were in my backyard, but it was a big party. And I can remember so much of it in clarity that
Maureen (04:04.398)
Yes.
Maureen (04:12.164)
Hmm.
Sara (04:27.722)
if I had drank, I would not have remembered quite as much. mean, I wouldn't have been like pass out drunk necessarily, but you you get kind of that haze from the alcohol where you have a great time, but then looking back on it, there's not as many tangible moments, if that makes sense.
Maureen (04:29.591)
Right.
Maureen (04:42.862)
Well, I love how you were really mindful and aware and you noticed that you were curious. You're like, well, this is interesting. I've never experienced this. So were open to noticing. That's incredible. I love that.
Sara (04:54.318)
And to be fair, I may not have even had that, you know, mindfulness at the moment because it wasn't a choice. It may be that that came to me later. I can't really remember how much thought I gave to it because it just wasn't an option. I had just started these medications that were like very clearly no alcohol mixed with it. And I think it may be more of looking back and realizing that I had a great time and I had so many nice connections and that I remember things so
Maureen (05:01.102)
Mm-hmm.
Maureen (05:11.875)
Mm-hmm.
Maureen (05:15.876)
Welcome back.
Sara (05:22.734)
clearly that made me realize, huh, like I can do this and that's the first time I've ever done this. And, huh, you know, it was just an aha moment. That being said, I didn't give up drinking at that point for good. You know, I went through, I certainly did not drink through the process of getting diagnosed or not diagnosed because I ended up basically getting like, nope, you're fine. But, you know, since then and with the changes that my body has gone through with perimenopause and
Maureen (05:27.64)
He-heh.
Maureen (05:41.912)
Mm-hmm.
Sara (05:53.422)
all of that, I have since changed my relationship with alcohol. And I would say that I have had instances where I've been bribed, I've had incidents, incidences where I haven't but the past couple years, like I have just, I don't know, I may have had two drinks in the month of January, and I didn't enjoy either one of them. And I can probably look back on the six months before this January and said, I've had one or two drinks here and there and they didn't add any value to my life. You know,
Maureen (06:20.436)
Mm, that's a really good aha. Didn't add any value. Yeah.
Sara (06:25.356)
Yeah, yeah. And the interesting thing is, guess, rather than saying I've developed a different relationship with alcohol, I feel like I just don't have one with alcohol anymore.
Maureen (06:35.716)
Yes, I can relate to that. I don't either anymore. And does it feel like a void or do you not miss it?
Sara (06:45.838)
I would say I don't really miss it. There are occasions where I'm like, I wish I could have a glass of wine, but it doesn't make me feel good. And then it goes away. Like, it's not a miss like, wow, I really miss wine. Because I guess I just realized, you know, coming from a healthcare practitioner background, I know that alcohol is a poison. doesn't do anything good for us physically. It is, you know,
Maureen (06:53.4)
Mm-hmm.
Maureen (07:08.056)
Yes.
Sara (07:14.616)
causes cancer, at least six different kinds, I think. There's maybe 10 now, I'm not sure. Yeah. But I just know that it doesn't serve us. And I also, we can get into this a little bit later, but I also know how it impacts your hormones and how your hormones impact how your body processes alcohol. So even though there are moments when like, I wish I could enjoy a glass of wine, there's more moments where I'm like, I'm absolutely not gonna have a glass of wine because if I have a glass of wine, I don't sleep well.
Maureen (07:17.326)
Seven, yeah.
Sara (07:43.616)
and sleep is one of my primary focuses in life. Like I want to sleep well. So.
Maureen (07:46.403)
Yes. Yeah, I mean, because you, we say, I wish I could enjoy a glass of wine because there's no doubt as a central nervous system depressant, it does regulate your central nervous system. You get that calm feeling, but you're saying to yourself that 20, 30 minutes of relaxation from the alcohol is not worth what it's going to do to my sleep and how I'm going to feel the next day.
Sara (08:11.188)
Exactly, like I've been really focused on sleep and another area of my life that I've been focused on is fitness. So neither one of those goes as well when you're drinking alcohol and I don't think or, and I can speak for myself. There are, I guess people out there that can have a couple of drinks and then go work out really heavy in the morning, but it does affect your performance. It's some level, right?
Maureen (08:29.238)
not recommended. I did it for years and it really impacted my performance, my muscle protein synthesis. You know, I was dehydrated. It's just really not a good practice.
Sara (08:38.423)
Yeah.
And what's interesting is I'm wearing a whoop right now that tracks your sleep and fitness and all that, and your heart rate variability, which is a really important health indicator. And the two drinks that I had in January, and when I say two drinks, I had one glass of wine early in January that I didn't even finish. I had a half a drink. And then the other time was a couple of weeks ago when I had, I think maybe it was, I don't even remember, but my heart rate variability plummeted both of those nights. know, it, I mean,
Maureen (08:57.956)
Mm-hmm.
Sara (09:11.19)
It was a half a drink. Like, why would I take a half a drink if it's going to actually affect me that way? It just doesn't, to me, make sense anymore.
Maureen (09:15.95)
Yeah. Yeah, so you were wearing like the ultimate wearable technology with the heart rate monitor when you were having these palpitations. And now wearable tech, everybody can have access to it. So like the whoop or your Apple, I have a Garmin and this heart rate variability is becoming a bigger and bigger, more important marker. Can you explain that a little bit to people?
Sara (09:25.506)
web.
Sara (09:29.802)
Exactly.
Sara (09:41.418)
gosh, it's not my area of expertise, but basically it does measure like the variability in between each beat of your heart. And there are specific numbers that you can compare. So your heart rate variability will naturally change day by day, but you should be in a certain range for you. And depending on your age range and your sex and a few other factors, you want to keep it as high as possible. And my heart rate variability,
Maureen (09:56.664)
Mm-hmm.
Maureen (10:06.083)
Yeah.
Sara (10:09.74)
The two markers that I'm noticing change at the most are very interesting because they're usually tied together in this culture. The two things that affect my heart rate variability are alcohol, making it go lower, which is not a good thing, and connection with good friends or loved ones, which makes it go high, which is good thing. And what's so interesting is our culture has built itself around alcohol. So that the times that we spend with our family and
Maureen (10:22.339)
right?
Hmm higher. Yes
Sara (10:37.4)
friends is usually when we're drinking alcohol. So instead of improving our heart rate variability with friends, we are basically plummeting it and taking away the healthy effects that connections are supposed to make for us.
Maureen (10:39.096)
Yes.
Maureen (10:43.652)
True connections.
Maureen (10:51.621)
Yes, yes, because so many people say, how will I connect without alcohol? Because they've become so reliant on it. I used to, I had social anxiety and I would think I couldn't go out without having a drink or two to calm down. But now without alcohol, three and a half years now in, I make such deeper connections and that is really improving my health instead of thinking I need to drink to connect when you're actually disconnected after two drinks.
Sara (11:17.388)
Right. And I, you know, I was at a party a couple of weeks ago where I, you know, was not drinking. And I'm just looking around saying, this is a party I'm only at because my husband had me come to it. It's not like I dislike the people, but they're not my people. So you become, or at least I become, I'll just speak for myself, but I become more selective about
Maureen (11:27.629)
Yep.
Maureen (11:40.386)
Yes, me too.
Sara (11:41.998)
rooms that I end up in. And it's just to me a more intentional way to live. And this is no judgment for people that come into my clinic, that come into my life. It's not that I judge people for drinking. It's more evaluating what works for me in this stage of my life.
Maureen (11:57.892)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah. And that's why I love to share about what alcohol truly does to our brains and our body, our brain chemistry, because that helps people make more informed choices. Everybody knows alcohol is not good for them on some level, but that's not enough. But the more we can explain and understand and get the message out there that there is no safe or healthy recommended amount of alcohol, you know, that will help people make more of an informed choice. So I know many women come to you
in perimenopause or menopause and they're complaining of poor sleep, they're feeling anxious, maybe weight gain. And all of these things are also impacted by alcohol. But I call this the elephant in the room. We often don't want to acknowledge that this one habit that we're doing may be negatively impacting all these other things.
Sara (12:50.348)
Yeah, yeah. Well, let's start with sleep, right? So if you have a drink, your sleep will be affected. That is not a negotiable, you know, maybe that's true, maybe it's not. Alcohol affects your sleep for a few different reasons. Your liver during sleep is supposed to be going through its processes to get rid of any waste and all of that. And frankly, your liver can't do its job when it has to deal with alcohol.
Maureen (12:51.725)
Yeah.
Maureen (13:03.107)
Mm-hmm.
Maureen (13:16.707)
Right.
Sara (13:17.208)
first. So by that in and of itself, it's disrupting your sleep. There's probably a million other ways that scientists can tell you that it also disrupts your sleep. But another way is alcohol and its effects on blood sugars. So alcohol actually can plummet your blood sugars and that can cause you to wake up at night because your body's saying, I'm really, really hungry right now. When you're not hungry, you could have a full meal, but with alcohol in your system, your blood sugars can really plummet and that will wake you up.
Maureen (13:29.252)
Mm.
Sara (13:45.342)
And I've seen that firsthand because I've worn continuous glucose monitors where I'll have my blood sugars dip at night with or without alcohol. And so that's something I pay attention to is how I nourish my body before I go to bed. Sometimes I do actually need a small snack to be able to sleep through the night. So alcohol really, really is, is when you're choosing alcohol, you're choosing less productive sleep. And for people that sleep really, really well,
Maureen (13:48.494)
Right.
Maureen (13:54.872)
Mm-hmm.
Maureen (14:08.344)
Yes.
Sara (14:12.224)
Again, no judgment. you choose to drink once or twice a week in limited amounts, that's fine. We all choose things that are bad for us occasionally. And I guess that's why I'm saying my relationship with alcohol has changed in that I don't really have a relationship with it. Sort of like I don't have a relationship with french fries anymore. Like, I can't tell you I'm never gonna have french fries again in my life. Because french fries are delicious. if you have them once a month or once every couple months, I'm not thinking that's a huge impact on your life.
Maureen (14:24.462)
Mm-hmm.
Maureen (14:31.433)
Right. Yeah.
Sara (14:42.102)
And I feel the same way about alcohol. There's no amount of french fries that are good. There's no amount of alcohol that's good. So if someone has a drink once a month, I'm not gonna look at their clinical chart and be like, my God, that's a poison. But if they can't only have one drink a month, that's an issue if they feel like.
Maureen (14:45.238)
Right. Right.
Maureen (14:57.623)
Yes.
That's when we start getting into problematic drinking. Anything over two drinks a week is really in this gray area that I coach too. So it's not the unicorns you're talking about who drink once or twice a year, and it's not the people who need medical intervention. It's the 95 % of the population that are drinking on average one to two drinks a night or seven to 14 drinks on the weekend.
Sara (15:05.262)
Hmm.
Sara (15:10.488)
Yeah.
Sara (15:21.614)
Yeah, well, that's just crazy. mean, the health impact of having, you know, for a woman to have six or eight drinks a week, which is not unheard of and is not uncommon, it's wild. It's wild.
Maureen (15:24.259)
Yeah.
Maureen (15:35.52)
Yeah, because we've bought into these studies for so long that drinking in moderation, one glass of wine a night is good for you. So many people are stuck there. So can you talk about how that would affect a woman who's coming to you for menopausal symptoms and they really want to change and get healthier?
Sara (15:53.506)
Yeah. Well, it's all really connected. And sometimes I feel like when I talk about this, I feel like I'm babbling because, you know, our hormones, a lot of the work gets done by the liver, again, mostly when we're sleeping. So the liver's involved with detoxing excess estrogens. It can't do that if there's any alcohol in your system.
Maureen (15:54.852)
Mm-hmm.
Maureen (16:04.024)
Mm-hmm.
Maureen (16:12.58)
Can I stop you right there just to explain that a little bit more? It's because the alcohol, right, sees, the body sees alcohol as a toxin that immediately has to be taken care of. So it puts aside all the other processes and things it needs to metabolize and work on. That, right, it prioritizes getting rid of the alcohol.
Sara (16:22.892)
the first one.
Sara (16:28.654)
Yeah, exactly. It is priority number one is get this shit out of my system, my French. That's really what alcohol is. It's crap. So the liver knows that and the liver says, halt everything. I've got to get this out of me, out of your system. So, you know, that can create hormonal havoc. And frankly, during perimenopause, there's a lot of hormonal havoc. A lot of women
Maureen (16:33.474)
Yes, yes.
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Sara (16:55.554)
have a loose understanding that what happens during perimenopause is our estrogen levels decline. That's not all that's going on. Our estrogen levels do decline, but they do it in a way that can be quite the roller coaster. So the first sex hormone to decline is progesterone, and that does have like a nice, slow kind of ride down.
down, down, down, but estrogen goes like up and down and up and down. It's like up, it's like a zigzag. If this isn't on video, it's like up and down, up and down and up and down until it finally plummets. So a lot of the symptoms that we get in perimenopause before menopause is because of all these fluctuating levels of estrogen. So some months you may have enough to have a period, some months you may not. And just imagine putting something as a block.
Maureen (17:23.94)
it is.
Huh.
Maureen (17:41.358)
Right.
Sara (17:44.655)
like alcohol in there to say, I'm sorry, we can't filter out what we need to filter out right now. We're gonna have to wait a little while. Your body doesn't need to wait. It could barely handle it without alcohol. So you're just putting in this blocking mechanism that does not serve your hormones. I think that's the best, easiest way to do it. But we're gonna take that and look at it in a more holistic picture and sleep.
Maureen (17:53.527)
Right.
Maureen (18:02.062)
Yeah, that's a great description.
Sara (18:12.31)
and stress are interlinked. And a lot of times in midlife, we're dealing with a lot of stressors. We're dealing with being perhaps empty nesters or dealing with aging parents or being at the height of our career. And perhaps our bodies and brains aren't working the way that they normally would because of all these hormonal fluctuations. So we just don't need that extra stress on our bodies and brains because alcohol is obviously not good neurologically as well.
Maureen (18:37.966)
Mm-hmm.
Sara (18:39.918)
There's just so many connections there, right? So your stress hormones and your reproductive hormones and your blood sugar hormones, they all work together and you throw alcohol in there and it's disrupting each of those systems. know, alcohol may feel good for the 20 or 30 minutes, but you're usually more anxious the next day. And, you know, some people are less sensitive than others, but they also just might be a little more disconnected than the people that are noticing that they're anxious.
Maureen (18:41.335)
Yeah.
Maureen (18:57.017)
Yes.
Maureen (19:07.054)
disconnected from their body and the awareness, right? Yeah. Yeah.
Sara (19:09.834)
Yeah, yeah. So there's a lot to unpack here. We could talk about this for hours.
Maureen (19:15.052)
I liked how you called alcohol the disruptor because that's really a good explanation. And it does come down to pausing. I try to encourage people to pause and say, you know, before you take that drink, think about how are you going to feel tomorrow? How are you going to sleep tonight? And that can be enough of a pause to say, like you did, you know, it just doesn't make me feel good anymore. So I'm not going to do it.
Sara (19:18.741)
Yeah.
Sara (19:39.884)
Yeah, and I also, you know, I try and lead by example for my daughter and for my patients. And, you know, I don't ever profess to trying to be perfect by any means. We're all flawed individuals. But I do like showing up this way in the world where alcohol is not as big a part of my life anymore because, you know, I don't want to show that as something that's normal.
Maureen (19:51.192)
Right.
Maureen (19:57.347)
Mm-hmm.
Maureen (20:01.22)
Right.
Maureen (20:08.312)
Yeah, and it is so normalized and romanticized and it's legalized, you know, and but I always ask this question, if alcohol were to come out today, imagine the commercials, you know, that list all the side effects and all the problems. I wonder if people would try it if it was brand new today and everything we know about it now would be known.
Sara (20:11.466)
Mwah.
Sara (20:29.07)
Yeah, I mean, I think some people would, you know, it's just sort of like smoking. They didn't really know that smoking was bad for you. Even the medical community didn't really acknowledge that until the 80s. And I think it took until like the early 2000s. I could be wrong about the years, but it definitely took over a decade for people to really stop smoking.
Maureen (20:34.434)
Yes.
Maureen (20:41.892)
Mm-hmm.
Maureen (20:47.309)
Yeah, I think alcohol is starting to have its cigarette moment because the science is coming out more and more and this wearable tech is really making a difference. People are noticing and it's accessible to everyone. And yeah, it has nothing to do with judgment. It has to do with a choice for your health.
Sara (20:50.924)
Yeah, yeah.
Sara (20:57.506)
Mm-hmm. I remember this one.
Yeah, exactly. And I think younger people are starting to drink a little bit less, which is a great thing. So yeah.
Maureen (21:06.766)
They definitely are. Yes. Yeah, younger people, alcohol is not such a big thing as it was for me growing up in the 80s, but 50 and up are still drinking a lot. Yeah. And so that's the population that we really see really struggling with the drinking.
Sara (21:21.838)
That's
Sara (21:26.772)
Yeah, that's interesting. Well, I think the demands of everyday life and adulting can make it so that you're looking for that quick fix at the end of a long day. Sorry, I'm plugging my computer in.
Maureen (21:38.605)
And it's also that I was really shocked when I first started looking into this for myself. I never wanted to acknowledge, wow, I'm drinking an addictive substance every day. And when I start tying it with stress, you know, even that could be work stress, coming home, that's your transition. And when you start to do that on a regular basis, then your brain remembers that and releases dopamine on your way home, that reward molecule to make you do that again. You know, so it's a habit.
Sara (21:51.469)
Yeah.
Sara (22:07.756)
Yeah
Maureen (22:08.376)
with an addictive substance.
Sara (22:11.638)
Yeah, and in my clinic, the way that I approach patient care is we are very lifestyle first and making sure that the building blocks of middle age, know, that you're doing the right things for your body and mind and spirit during middle age, because it's not just a physical change. It's also, you know, kind of a way like we're supposed to step back and become more intentional as we reach this phase of our lives.
Maureen (22:18.521)
Mm-hmm.
Maureen (22:27.257)
Yes.
Maureen (22:37.219)
Mm-hmm.
Sara (22:39.276)
And we often can't do that if alcohol is in the mix from more of a spiritual and mindful perspective. It takes the mindfulness out of the equation. And so when I'm approaching patient care, there's a lot of building blocks to healthy, happy hormones and sleep is one of them. Community and finding a strong support system if you don't have one is equally as important as other health changes that you could have.
Maureen (22:48.441)
Yes.
Sara (23:07.806)
implemented lifting heavy weights is important. You know, weight bearing exercises for, for bone health and metabolism, healthy eating. And, know, all of those things take, I work a lot with mindset. It takes a lot of.
Maureen (23:13.591)
Right?
protein.
Sara (23:24.43)
positive mindset to implement those changes. And the positive mindset is that you're worth it. The positive mindset is that you can do this. The positive mindset is you can be strong during midlife. You can create the body that you want during midlife. Because the messaging out there, we don't need to look like we're 20-year-olds, but we can certainly create the physical form that we want if we're making a lot of intentional choices. And that takes the belief that you can.
Maureen (23:26.21)
Yes. Yeah.
Maureen (23:51.129)
Yes.
Sara (23:52.364)
And I think waking up with a hangover, it's really hard to talk yourself into doing all of the right things every day. It's, you know, and saying I'm worth it, even though I made, you know, really bad choices last night. It just makes your job of creating a healthy lifestyle that much harder.
Maureen (23:56.686)
Mm-hmm.
Maureen (24:08.566)
Absolutely. I love how you use the word intentional and mindful and that those two things do take a little bit more work than reaching for a drink that is just people, my clients say, but it's an easy off switch. And whereas doing something like yoga, getting outside for a walk, talking with friends, that does take a little more intent, but the payoff is so much longer lasting and beneficial than that quick off switch of alcohol. my
Sara (24:17.87)
Mm-hmm.
Sara (24:22.861)
Yeah.
Sara (24:32.929)
Yeah.
Maureen (24:36.792)
Coaching is really synergistic with what you were saying because in my gray area drinking training, I address the physiology first to help people do these lifestyle practices. I resource them like I would send them to you because if they're not getting those things in place, they're going to go back to the alcohol because it's such an easy remedy.
Sara (24:59.094)
Yeah, yeah. I know it's funny because my husband has definitely noticed that I drink so much less than I ever have in our 14 year relationship. And like he'll pour himself a drink and be like, do you want one? I'm like, like no. Like I've said no pretty much every time you've asked for the past, I don't know how long. So he's like, are you dry? Is it dry January or is this dry 2025? I'm like, I don't need to label this. Like it's not.
Again, like I don't, I think there were times in my life when I drank too much in a way that like affected me socially or negatively. I would never say that I considered myself a problem drinker. I think I had times when I was drinking and it was a problem, but I never, like I've never had difficulties doing a dry January. I've never had difficulty, like I don't think I had as strong a relationship.
Maureen (25:35.48)
Yeah, I did too.
Maureen (25:47.192)
Mm-hmm, I get that.
Maureen (25:55.897)
Mm-hmm.
Sara (25:57.484)
or addiction to alcohol as some other people did, but any alcohol is unhealthy. And there were definitely times in my life where I drank way more than, you know, so.
Maureen (26:07.364)
Yeah, me too. I mean, that's one of the reasons I looked at it. I realized it was really affecting my mental health. I was becoming increasingly anxious. I had always had depression and here I am drinking a depressant. And then it was increasing my anxiety. So, you know, taking, again, look at that for your mental health is so important too. That's an interesting point you brought up though, because a lot of my clients will say, well, what if, my spouse or my partner, my significant other still drinks?
Sara (26:15.437)
Yeah.
Sara (26:21.517)
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Sara (26:28.526)
Yeah.
Maureen (26:37.539)
you know.
Sara (26:38.766)
Yeah, I mean, I, again, because I think, and I think that's why I brought it up and didn't really finish my point. It doesn't affect me that he drinks because I don't feel like I have a relationship with alcohol where it's like, I have to stay away. It doesn't take much work for me to say no. It doesn't, it almost doesn't take any work for me to say no. Like every once in a I'll be like, And it just doesn't, like, it's not a drama in my life or it's not, like, I'm so fortunate to say that it's been,
Maureen (26:42.062)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Maureen (26:51.298)
Yes.
Sara (27:08.298)
an easy process for me. And it's not like he's giving me pressure, but I can imagine that there are so many marriages and dynamics that really suffer if one person, you know, I actually had a friend maybe 10 years ago when I was still drinking pretty regularly, like, you know, definitely when we went out socializing, I remember her saying she was on the dating sites and she wouldn't date anybody that didn't drink.
Maureen (27:12.526)
Mm-hmm.
Sara (27:32.492)
And I was like, wow, well, that says more about you than it does about them. And I probably had a drink in my hand when I said it because it just, to me, if someone didn't drink, I don't care. It's about them versus me, you know, like, but I was like, that's kind of a red flag that you would say that.
Maureen (27:46.105)
Yeah, that was very insightful of you to notice that. Yeah, it's a tight rope to navigate and you never start out intending to drink more than you want to. But over time when you're drinking an addictive substance and if you start tying it to stress, trauma, depression, or even just celebration all the time, you start to take away that you don't know how to do those things without alcohol. So it's a relearning process.
Sara (27:50.508)
Yeah.
Sara (27:58.318)
Yeah.
Sara (28:11.842)
Yeah.
Right, right.
Maureen (28:15.128)
But so when a patient comes to you and you see their numbers and you see their levels and say they're in menopause and their sleep is affected, how do you address that elephant in the room?
Sara (28:22.509)
Yeah.
Sara (28:26.806)
Yeah. So menopause, I just want to say is only one day of our lives, the anniversary of the last time we had a period. So that's only one day. So perimenopause and postmenopause are kind of, you know, different beasts. So if you have gone through menopause, if you've reached the anniversary of your last day of your period, you are postmenopausal after that.
Maureen (28:31.501)
That's right.
Maureen (28:41.444)
Mm-hmm.
Sara (28:52.704)
In that case, your hormones aren't fluctuating that much. You have lost most of your sex hormones unless you choose to replace them, which a lot of women are doing these days. It's been proven to be much safer than we used to think it was. So I would guide women differently. I always, like if women ask about alcohol, I say, it's not healthy. that, I'm not a substance abuse counselor or coach. So I would, if they,
Maureen (28:57.378)
Hmm.
Maureen (29:03.961)
Yes.
Maureen (29:17.55)
Mm-hmm.
Sara (29:21.89)
believe they had a problem, refer them to someone like you or someone that can help them to navigate through that. I'm certainly always happy to share my story, but that's just my story and not an expert. But I think where I really hold a strong opinion or really speak out against their use of alcohol, I'll look at how much they're drinking and what their symptoms are because
Maureen (29:23.321)
Mm-hmm.
Maureen (29:31.854)
Mm-hmm.
Maureen (29:48.611)
Right.
Sara (29:50.614)
You know if sleep is one of those major issues I have a lot of women come in we're in the dc area So we have a lot of really high-powered women Professionals, they take their career seriously. They go out for a lot of work winners and you know drinking as a part of that culture And to step away from drinks may even affect their job like that's how Involved in our culture drinking is right? So, know, right so
Maureen (30:02.862)
Mm-hmm.
Maureen (30:13.888)
Yeah, I used to be a pharmaceutical rep. I do know that.
Sara (30:20.334)
Where I draw the line is when a woman tells me that they're doing absolutely everything they can for their health, except they have eight drinks a week. So it's a fine line to go across because people don't like to hear it. And I probably have lost a bunch of patients when I've had that conversation with them, but they're not doing everything for their health. If they're drinking two drinks a night or, you know, they're just not.
Maureen (30:43.214)
Mm-hmm.
Sara (30:49.026)
They may be doing a lot of things for their health, but that's one biggie that they haven't tackled yet. So, you know, I will talk to them about cutting back or potentially stopping. It really depends on which symptoms they're having. I'll refer out if I think it's, you know, a major issue, but it's a tough one. It's a tough one because we just, you know, even going out to these parties recently, you know, over the past six months, it's just weird how people care whether you have a drink in your hand or not.
Maureen (30:55.662)
Mm-hmm.
Maureen (31:17.348)
It is and it took me a long time to get used to that and I talk with clients about that a lot. And it's something that quite frankly held me back from changing how I drank or eventually stopping drinking. It's that mirror effect when you say you're not drinking or if you're just standing there without a drink in your hand that subconsciously the other person who is drinking feels threatened. And it's almost like you're holding up. Yeah.
Sara (31:39.084)
Yeah, had a girlfriend who didn't want to have a drink because she noticed I wasn't drinking. And then she was kind of like feeling a little guilty about ordering a glass of wine at dinner. And I'm like, go ahead. Like, you know, first of all, I'm not your doctor. So I'm not going to talk to you about the health effects of alcohol unless you ask me a very direct question. But it is such a weird dynamic and it is hard to get used to. think that's probably one of the biggest stumbling blocks. I mean, you told me you're the expert, right?
Maureen (31:42.766)
Yes.
Maureen (31:49.537)
Right.
Maureen (31:54.861)
Right.
Maureen (32:04.992)
It is. We call that the mirror effect. So when you say you're not drinking or you don't have a drink, people see the mirror and they see themselves. Imagine I hold up a hand mirror to you and they're like, no, well, what is Sarah thinking? Does that mean I can't have more than one drink? And is she watching me? And actually I want to be with someone who's drinking because I don't want anybody to notice how much I want to drink. And it's all so fast in their head. They don't even realize. So it's really, it's not about you if someone comes back at you and says,
Sara (32:30.958)
.
Maureen (32:33.976)
Why aren't you drinking? Is something wrong with you? Did you have a problem? That kind of thing. It's really about how they feel nervous. I'm not saying this in a judgmental way. I used to say those things when I was drinking and someone wasn't drinking around me because I didn't want to bring attention to how much I was drinking.
Sara (32:45.368)
Right.
Sara (32:52.078)
Yeah, absolutely. And I have a 20-year-old daughter who, she's in a college, that's a heavy college partying town. Definitely her and her sorority sisters can tie one on. I feel like the best thing I can do is just model healthy behavior because as a mom, she's a very bright girl. She knows that drinking doesn't necessarily serve her, but she likes to be with her friends.
Maureen (32:59.289)
Mm-hmm.
Maureen (33:19.46)
Sure. Yeah.
Sara (33:21.236)
I'm not a micromanager of my daughter. Like she is, I trust her to make good decisions. All I can do is provide a mirror for her. And when I get back from working out at 8.30 AM and she's just rolling out of bed, she knows, like everybody knows, like you said, it's a mirror thing. So again, I'm.
Maureen (33:28.91)
Yeah, yeah.
Maureen (33:41.903)
But you're right, you have to come to that conclusion on your own. But I think giving your patients information and explaining if this is what you're feeling, that you're not sleeping well and you're doing all the other things, then we do need to take a look at this elephant in the room, alcohol. And the best thing to do is take at least a 30 day break to see how you feel.
Sara (33:49.057)
Exactly.
Sara (34:04.43)
Yeah, and you said like, wouldn't it be interesting if if alcohol got presented now with knowing all the risks and stuff? What if alcohol became illegal right now? Like what would happen?
Maureen (34:07.555)
Mm-hmm.
Maureen (34:13.806)
Well, we'd be back in prohibition, I think. They tried that once and it was very, it's very hard to take away something that people really rely on to de-stress, to relax, to socialize. Because, and I know because I went through the process, I had to relearn how to do those things without alcohol. On the other side of that, I can say there's real freedom and I'm more authentic and I'm enjoying relationships more. I...
Sara (34:17.358)
Right.
Sara (34:32.003)
Yeah.
Sara (34:37.87)
Thank you.
Maureen (34:38.532)
I don't go to parties if I don't want to go anymore. I don't rely on alcohol to help me get through something where I didn't really want to be there in the first place. So it's being more true to yourself, you know, but only people can only have to experience it. You can't tell anybody anything.
Sara (34:46.488)
Right, exactly. Yeah.
Sara (34:54.316)
Right, right. yeah, that goes back to, know, in clinic, just, I'm there to hold people and walk them home. You know, I think we're all here to hold each other's hands and walk each other home. So it's not about judgment. It's more like, how do you want to feel? So when I first see a patient, I don't ask them, you know, we'll get to their symptoms. The first question I want to know is, where do you, how do you want to feel in three months? How do you want to feel five years from now?
Maureen (35:14.008)
Mm-hmm. Sure.
Maureen (35:20.194)
Hmm, like that.
Sara (35:22.638)
Like what things do you value? Do you want to have more energy? I don't want to talk about your fatigue. I want to talk about, you want to feel energized? I don't want to talk about your limitations right now. I want to talk about like what would a perfect, healthy, fulfilled life look like to you? And then cut out the things that wouldn't align you with getting there. And I can't think of very many things that would be as disruptive.
Maureen (35:51.14)
Yes.
Sara (35:51.392)
as alcohol, right? Like that is in the top one. Obviously there's other toxic things out there, toxic relationships, toxic, other toxic substances, but alcohol is a big one. So by looking at like what you want to accomplish, if you're saying yes to a drink, you're saying no to some things. If you're saying yes to drink, you're saying no to sleep. If you're saying yes to a drink, you're saying no to that early work workout. So, you know, it's not about thinking about the things.
Maureen (35:59.161)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Maureen (36:06.414)
Right.
Sara (36:17.868)
that you want in the moment, it's thinking about like the life you want to create for yourself.
Maureen (36:21.378)
Yeah, it's not short-term, it's future self-thinking, long-term thinking, and how do you really want to feel? I love that. That is so powerful.
Sara (36:25.742)
Yeah.
Sara (36:29.398)
Yeah, how do you want to show up for yourself and for the people that you love?
Maureen (36:32.494)
How do you want to show up? Yeah, I love that. Well, I want to shift to, I'm really curious about acupuncture. And as I said, when I'm working with people and they're taking a break, I try to encourage them to try other things to regulate their central nervous system. How do you think acupuncture could fit into that?
Sara (36:39.854)
Mm-hmm.
Sara (36:46.552)
Yeah.
Sara (36:50.816)
Yeah, well, acupuncture can play a part in almost anything people are struggling. And it may not be the primary part. Like we're not going to solve cancer with acupuncture, but acupuncture can really play a part in almost anything you're struggling with, including alcohol addiction. There is a particular protocol that we use in the ear that's specific for addiction. So just putting that on the table, they use it in the military for PTSD.
It's used in homeless clinics for addiction. It's used for a lot of different things involving the central nervous system. So one of the things that acupuncture can do is lower your stress hormones in general, balance out your stress hormones in general, which will make it easier for you to combat any cravings that you may have, that kind of thing. Acupuncture also just balances the system and gives you a general sense of wellbeing, which I think is empowering for people that are trying to make changes.
Maureen (37:19.819)
Interesting.
Maureen (37:34.766)
Yes.
Sara (37:47.116)
We can also work on any symptoms that you're experiencing, whether it be withdrawal or anxiety or depression. So we can work on the symptoms that may be there holding you back from making the changes. I always think of acupuncture as a catalyst. So if you're spinning your wheels and can't seem to get out of that hamster wheel to make the changes you need in life, acupuncture can kind of be the thing that frees you up. I think of it as like the energy in your system is like when you have a garden hose that's flowing water free.
Maureen (37:58.767)
Mm-hmm.
Maureen (38:06.392)
Yes.
Sara (38:16.462)
flow through it, you're functioning well. But what we do is like, we take the garden hose and straighten it out where it has a kink so that things can flow again. Yeah.
Maureen (38:22.232)
Yeah, that's a great picture. Yeah, I love that. Can you tell people where you practice and how you practice?
Sara (38:32.312)
Sure. So I have two wellness clinics. I have one in Annapolis, Maryland and one in Edgewater, Maryland. They're only about 15 minutes away from each other. We have myself and three other acupuncturists in our clinics. we, let's see, we all have our specialties. Like I deal mostly or only with women's health, primarily in the midlife space. But we have acupuncturists there that deal primarily with anxiety.
and more of the psycho-emotional aspects of health. We have pain management. We have a lot of different focuses in our clinic. And so if you were to call the clinic, it's Meadow Hill Wellness. If you were to call Meadow Hill Wellness, our staff would help to guide you to the right practitioner for whatever you're struggling with.
Maureen (39:18.36)
Now I also see you have retreats occasionally. Can you tell us a little bit about that?
Sara (39:23.534)
Yeah, yeah, I'm super excited. I'm not sure when this episode will air, but March 16th through the 22nd, we have a retreat in Panama, which I'm really excited about. I've teamed up with a meditation instructor and we're really focusing on building an intentional life through meditation and yoga and we'll have lots of like Dharma talks. It'll be amazing. So that's March 16th through 22nd. And then
Maureen (39:38.361)
Mmm.
Sara (39:47.976)
at the end of April, I believe it's the 26th to the 28th. We have a mini retreat. It's a weekend in West Virginia, which is just two hours away from Annapolis. I'm focusing on breath work in that retreat, breath work and yoga and eating and all that good stuff with Trish Brewer, who is a dear friend and colleague. Yeah.
Maureen (40:01.934)
So important.
Maureen (40:06.105)
Yes.
that sounds interesting. So I'll put this in the show notes, everybody, and I will publish this before your first retreat. And Sarah, I always ask people, what do you do personally to stay sober fit? So whether it's mentally, physically, emotionally, or all three.
Sara (40:12.747)
Yeah, I think so.
Sara (40:26.252)
Yeah, I do so many things and I feel right now it's taking me even more effort to stay sane with the world swirling around me. I really like lately have been focusing on my morning routine, which is an intentional before I start on social or work or anything like that. I have a couple books that I'm reading. One is the journey to the heart by Melody Beatty. It's a really beautiful book. Each day of the year has
Maureen (40:31.639)
It does.
Maureen (40:43.01)
Mm-hmm.
Sara (40:54.264)
like a paragraph or two to set you up intentionally for the day, gives you nice like food for thought. There's another one called the pivot year similar concept, but I read both of those passages. It only takes me a couple of minutes. And then, so just making sure to stay away from social media in the morning. It's like a saving grace. Focusing on fitness, making sure to schedule my workouts throughout the week. It's been really.
Maureen (41:09.764)
Mm-hmm. Yep.
Sara (41:19.886)
helpful for me because if I move my body, my brain is pretty happy. Yeah. you know, incorporating some type of meditation, I don't have a set time, but I always find at least 10 to 20 minutes each day to meditate. Sometimes it's way longer, but I at least am consistent with 10 to 20 minutes.
Maureen (41:22.274)
Yep, me too.
Maureen (41:37.496)
Yeah, all of those are so important. The morning routine, the structure and the stillness, the meditation. So Dr. Sarah lives it people, you heard that here. No, it's just we're all trying to do our best. But thank you so much for coming on and sharing all this information and your wisdom and your personal journey as well. I really appreciate it. Thank you for being here.
Sara (41:48.674)
Not every single moment of every single day, but I sure try.
Sara (42:02.314)
Absolutely. Yeah, thank you for having me again.
Maureen (42:07.205)
Okay, getting.
